German GP race

[Tension_36th]

Massa was obviously going to win as he was always a tenth or two faster pacing ahead but that team order "Felipe Alonso is faster can you confirm" was clear enough to ask him to move over.

Not the best way to win, but for the title sakes they will do it now, but there is no logic in doing it now since Massa was racing and he is mathematically still in the title fight himself.

Redbull wasnt having the speed to beat Ferrari they were both evenly matched on this track it was a matter of who got the first corner Massa did. As its a short track and doesnt have enough features to play into Redbull's strength. On a longer track the advantages would have been the same as before. So Ferrari finally made use of a rare chance that will not be available for a while now as we are heading back to Mclaren-Redbull favored tracks.

But this move to make Massa to let Alonso through may prove of little use when they go to the other tracks. A bit excessive to ask Massa to give up what was clearly his race to win.

Let see if they can make this count in the end. If not this is will be a very bad way to rob a driver of their win as this is not the final few races of the season.

And Alonso was a acting a bit cheap when he said on the radio Massa was "ridiculous" he did nothing wrong, defend his position not letting Alonso through no running off or anything just plain denying any openings.

[funkyfish]

It was a very hollow win. Ferrari should have let them be, if Alonso wasn't fast enough to catch Massa then so be it. Thats how it goes. The Ferrari pit wall should be ashamed off themselves. At the same time, I don't think it'd be particularly fair for many of the other teams to criticise as many of them have made similar decisions, not quite the same but McLaren in I think Turkey. Either way I'd like to see the FIA reverse the positions and give Massa 1st and Alonso 2nd then give Ferrari a big fine to make them think again.

Also thinking back to the beginning, Vettel trying to push Alonso into the wall, I thought was very dangerous particularly if Alonso had have ended up going into the wall.

[falmark]

Good to see Ferrari back on top, but team order's sucks.
Alonso was faster of the 2 but could not get past Massa and this win has to give a bad taste for him. And if it doesn't shame on him

[Tension_36th]

There were no applause for Alonso's win in the German GP media center. A few boos ring out... According to Nobel of autosport. Not surprising. This is pretty unnecessary especially at this stage of the championship its not like Alonso is in the lead they are both well behind Mclaren and Redbull in the championship table. And its not like Massa was holding him up he was merely pacing. Massa had the measure of Alonso for when it counted.

This wont stay silent Mclaren will moslty protest since it is in their interests that their points position is preserved in advantage possible.

[Sazkia]

This is a farce. Very disgusting way to win a race!
And the way Alonso was answering questions on the press conference told me that he knew about them.
The journalist asked him whether he told the team he wanted to get past Massa, and he just dodged the question. Didn't answer it but made up a whole load of crap as an answer.

The way I felt about Alonso has just dropped to below zero. Seriously. This is disgusting, a farce, and I would have never thought Alonso to be such a cheat. BAH!

[Tension_36th]

Alonso and Stefano engaged in what can be rightly class as a gross insult to the F1 fan's intelligence.

Alonso: What happened to massa did he miss a gear or so?
Stefano: Its ok its ok now, here is the classification....

Who do they think the fans are? Fans may be not so tech savvy but this is just petulant to engage in such cheesy charades. They insult the viewers with their cheap attitude. Why not just come clean and admit it. It was damn obvious to anybody. And to lace it with fake dialogues is really arrogant. They looked like Mclaren and the whiner shamilton having a fake conversation.

[Tension_36th]

Its now being investigated as they have been summoned by the stewards, a two race ban is appropriate for the whole team. As this is not the first time they have done this, fines and such nonsense don't do the trick. A harsh penalty is needed to deter them from doing ever again.

More here

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85539

[TheProdigalSon]

(07-25-2010 04:07 PM)Sazkia Wrote:  This is a farce. Very disgusting way to win a race!
And the way Alonso was answering questions on the press conference told me that he knew about them.
The journalist asked him whether he told the team he wanted to get past Massa, and he just dodged the question. Didn't answer it but made up a whole load of crap as an answer.

The way I felt about Alonso has just dropped to below zero. Seriously. This is disgusting, a farce, and I would have never thought Alonso to be such a cheat. BAH!

how did he a cheat? You can't be much of an Alonso fan if your calling him a cheat. Plus what do you expect Alonso to say? Team orders exist in every team, ferrari just handled it badly.

[Tension_36th]

(07-25-2010 04:47 PM)TheProdigalSon Wrote:  

(07-25-2010 04:07 PM)Sazkia Wrote:  This is a farce. Very disgusting way to win a race!
And the way Alonso was answering questions on the press conference told me that he knew about them.
The journalist asked him whether he told the team he wanted to get past Massa, and he just dodged the question. Didn't answer it but made up a whole load of crap as an answer.

The way I felt about Alonso has just dropped to below zero. Seriously. This is disgusting, a farce, and I would have never thought Alonso to be such a cheat. BAH!

how did he a cheat? You can't be much of an Alonso fan if your calling him a cheat. Plus what do you expect Alonso to say? Team orders exist in every team, ferrari just handled it badly.

He cheated the public by faking a conversation on the radio. It is like insulting the viewers.

Remember its not these cry baby divas in cars who make the sport its us the fans, without us they are just a prancing ballerinas on a time wasting exercise. So they all need show a little respect to the fans and the sport.

And team orders exist only in cheap teams like mainly Ferrari and Mclaren, and in the past Renault and as recently as Brawn GP. The rest never had the need to use it. They let their drivers race and even crash each other out like Williams Montoya - Ralf. Ferrari had no good reason to use it now, there is no justification.

[WiTcH]

Great result and AT LAST good pace for Ferrari! What did Vettel want to do at the beginning when he went on Fernando?? He pulled me at the wall! And Massa went out at the first corner. I accepted a penalty there. And guys DON'T GET ME STARTED! Alonso cheater and blah blah blah... Why does that team orders become such a big deal ONLY with Ferrari? You would prefer to listen to something like:''Jenson..please mind your fuel. You are running low in fuel!'' and then let Ham. pass by? These are not team orders? Or do you prefer something like the Red Bulls who fight with each other, get out of the track because they crash and they are gonna lose the championship if they go on with this dispute. Come on!!!!!!!!!!!
And if you are a driver who has so many shit races through the whole championship and in ONE single race you go well, but the other team driver is OBVIOUSLY FASTER than you through the whole championship and the whole race and he comes by you THEN you just shut the f*** up and step aside and watch him do the one faster lap after the other and the third driver approaching you so much cause YOU ARE SLOW!!! I know it is not fair...Obviously... That is to be part of a team. You follow orders to get as many points as possible.
P.S. They did the right thing. Vettel was coming so close to them. Massa was slow. What wasn't right from Fernando was that comment:''Ridiculous.'' That one unexpected. I agree. He shouldn't say that. They are team mates after all. And sorry for being so mad, but every time, years now I read the same stuff... Instead of being happy with the team's performance AT LAST...

[TheProdigalSon]

(07-25-2010 04:51 PM)Tension_36th Wrote:  He cheated the public by faking a conversation on the radio. It is like insulting the viewers.

he is saying what is neccesary within this stupid rule! --> team interest

[Chrissie]

OK...I'm tending to agree with Stef here - I know team orders are wrong but absolutely everyone does it just not in such an obvious way....what else were they going to do - let Felipe continue to hold up Fernando and give Vettel a chance to get by one if not both of them? Wait until Fernando exploded and tried some foolish move taking them both out?? I mean, I'm not happy that he's won this way but goddammit we were due....ok in the first few races he made some stupid mistakes and they were his fault no-one elses but the past two races he's been driving well but just had rotten luck and got no results to show for his efforts.

I don't see it as a waste of time either...Fernando could well be in with a chance of the championship - he ain't too far off you know...people have pulled back greater deficits to the leader than the one he has now and with a point system that didn't reward race winners as much as the current one - none of us has a crystal ball so none of us can tell what kind of pace Ferrari are going to have for the next 7 or 8 races or whatever.....tension, if we were to believe you, Ferrari wouldn't have even won today...so why believe that they can't win again?

As for the conversation at the end...what exactly should he have said.......thanks for asking felipe to move over???


And finally, calling Fernando a cheat is a bit rough....at the end of the day, it was the team who told Felipe to move over, not Fernando...though I do agree saying "this is ridiculous" was out of order

[WiTcH]

Thank you Chrissie! Cause I thought I was like insane in here... I mean...FINALLY!
P.S. Chrissie, the ''spells'' helped Fernando after all, right?? haha! I did them right... Remember the words at your signature that we talked about? And I told you: ''As a witch I'll try to slove them...''

[VoRteX]

(07-25-2010 03:43 PM)Tension_36th Wrote:  Massa was obviously going to win as he was always a tenth or two faster pacing ahead but that team order "Felipe Alonso is faster can you confirm" was clear enough to ask him to move over.

Not the best way to win, but for the title sakes they will do it now, but there is no logic in doing it now since Massa was racing and he is mathematically still in the title fight himself.

Redbull wasnt having the speed to beat Ferrari they were both evenly matched on this track it was a matter of who got the first corner Massa did. As its a short track and doesnt have enough features to play into Redbull's strength. On a longer track the advantages would have been the same as before. So Ferrari finally made use of a rare chance that will not be available for a while now as we are heading back to Mclaren-Redbull favored tracks.

But this move to make Massa to let Alonso through may prove of little use when they go to the other tracks. A bit excessive to ask Massa to give up what was clearly his race to win.

Let see if they can make this count in the end. If not this is will be a very bad way to rob a driver of their win as this is not the final few races of the season.

And Alonso was a acting a bit cheap when he said on the radio Massa was "ridiculous" he did nothing wrong, defend his position not letting Alonso through no running off or anything just plain denying any openings.

not obvious, and that Massa was pacing faster is just not true.
Fernando answered to each of Massa's fast laps with a faster lap just afterwards.
Fernando let the gap open to 3-4 seconds, and then Massa got the radio message to push. Ferrari was testing their pace. Alonso closed the gap quite quick. What is obvious is that the plan was to test their pace and favor the faster one. That was the team plan. Massa didnt like that plan and then radio Ferrari had to be more clear with the team orders (team orders decided before the race). And he let Fernando pass in a way to fuel the polemics.
Kimi had a more noble attitude with Felipe in 2008, remember?
Felipe behaved like an angry kid this time.
But Fernando is not stupid to risk a DNF ala Red Bull style..

but I think those team orders were not necessary. And its ilegal too (despite all teams using them anyway, but in a more camoufllaged way :P)
How many times did Felipe block wheels during the race? i lost count.
There was possibility to overtake without team orders because of the tyre issue alone and his slower pace on top. Massa actually admitted he struggled with the tyres!

radio Ferrari
Felipe

tabloid opportunism

[Chrissie]

(07-25-2010 06:19 PM)WiTcH Wrote:  Thank you Chrissie! Cause I thought I was like insane in here... I mean...FINALLY!
P.S. Chrissie, the ''spells'' helped Fernando after all, right?? haha! I did them right... Remember the words at your signature that we talked about? And I told you: ''As a witch I'll try to slove them...''

Now Stef, I just need you to magic away all this "team-order", "cheat" crap??? Think you could do it??

[ashyxt]

it's definitely not a good way to take the win but Fernando was in a tough situation to say basically anything, I would love to know too if there's anything Fernando said that after the "it's ridiculous", that triggered the team order, BUT, Fernando was indeed quicker just now & had it not been the way it turned out, Vettel might had caught up & troubled the Ferrari 1-2 = ) huge sorry to Felipe but other than that it was the right thing for the whole team, for both WDC & WCC

[WiTcH]

(07-25-2010 06:23 PM)Chrissie Wrote:  

(07-25-2010 06:19 PM)WiTcH Wrote:  Thank you Chrissie! Cause I thought I was like insane in here... I mean...FINALLY!
P.S. Chrissie, the ''spells'' helped Fernando after all, right?? haha! I did them right... Remember the words at your signature that we talked about? And I told you: ''As a witch I'll try to slove them...''

Now Stef, I just need you to magic away all this "team-order", "cheat" crap??? Think you could do it??

Um...Chrissie...I made it with these huuuuuge, hard spells on Fernando, don't you think I can make it with something like this? pff ...details! haha!

[Chrissie]

Stef I'd start working that magic right about now

Ferrari fined, referred to WMSC

[need4speed]

ok, i kinda agree with chrissie up there because fernando wasnt the one who was directly involved. it was the team that issued the "order" and fernando couldnt have done anything about it.
and i was also listening to a few F1 experts on tv and they were saying that such "indirect team orders" exist in every team and since they're indirect, its hard for the FIA to classify them as "team orders".
but i just read on autosport that ferrari have been fined and the case has been referred to the WMC. does that mean that ferrari could possibly face further punishment like a disqualification or points deduction or any such penalty that could adversely affect their chances in the drivers' championship? that would be bad if they get disqualified! it will totally play into the hands of hamilton! so what are tha chances of that?

[Chrissie]

Given Ferrai's recent bitching about the stewards and their handling of penalties, it would be about right for them to be given a pretty severe punishment for something absolutely every team does - RBR even tried it a few races ago with Vettel and Webber...it just ended badly for them so no need to investigate there I suppose


I'm thinking probably either disqualification from the race and stripped of their points or a suspension or some sort....


This sport turns into more of a joke at every race....



And something else that's come to my mind.....talking about Fernando cheating us with his conversation at the end of the race - what the f*ck was Smedley doing apologising to Massa??? That's far worse than what Fernando did IMO - and did Massa have to make it so obvious? Surely he could've tried to just brake a bit late into turn 6 and go a bit wide or something - he just plain lifted off.....you'd almost think Massa actualy wanted them to get caught

Either way, methinks Ferrari is going to be made an example of in front of the WMSC